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Dr. Mardy Grothe's avatar

Thanks, dj. What a wonderful man! I too would like a friend like that. His story fits perfectly into next week's theme: humility.

Ted Dwyer's avatar

An excellent essay on a confusing subject. I was reminded of one of my father’s favorite sayings…..familiarity breeds contempt. Also, happily friends are easier to disconnect from than family.

Dr. Mardy Grothe's avatar

Thanks for weighing in, Ted. Yes, that old saying does have some applicability here.

Ted Dwyer's avatar

I am also reminded of Elwood P. Dowd’s observation about being smart or pleasant. Perhaps one thing we all need more of is less trouble. With that idea in mind, I am trying to be more pleasant.

Dr. Mardy Grothe's avatar

For those who might not understand the reference, in the 1944 movie "Harvey," the character Elwood P. Dowd famously said: “Years ago my mother used to say to me, ‘In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant.’ Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant.”

Nick Arden's avatar

Interesting topic and analysis, Mardy!

I have a couple of very different comments:

Friendships we made during our childhood seem to have a special characteristic - even if we have drifted apart for decades, somehow they are much easier to recover.

I disagree that ghosting is not cruel. It usually leaves the 'ghostee' wondering why, often looking for an undeserved personal fault. (And out of respect for our friendship, I did not qualify the degree of my disagreement!!!)

Dr. Mardy Grothe's avatar

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Nick. And don't worry, we can disagree and still be friends.

James Seagle's avatar

Dr. Mardy,

Above all, I value loyalty in myself and in my friends. Take care to remember this, "every friend will let you down; but, count carefully the times they have buoyed you up".

Best,

Jamie

Dr. Mardy Grothe's avatar

A lovely thought, Jamie. Thanks for sharing.

Brent Scott's avatar

“You care enough not to be cruel, but not enough to be decent.” I get the sentiment.

I recently had a conversation with a friend who is in a study program. Sarah Peyton's resonance therapy uses neuroscience and "resonant language" to heal trauma, helping people build self-compassion and rewire their brains through deep understanding and connection, much like a cello vibrating to music, by bringing warmth and precision to difficult emotions and experiences.

An aspect of the work is the concept of “contracts”. I find it a powerful framing, as it seems we do make contracts, that not only do the people we make the contract with don’t know there is a contract but we don’t even realize the there is a contract in place, operating under our consciousness.

This is apparent in everything I’ve looked at, including friendships.

The, often hidden, or unspoken contract stipulates the terms under which the friendship either works or doesn’t work. Our friends don’t know the terms of our contract with them, nor do we, until one of the terms of the unspoken or realized contracts is bent or broken.

All of the “reasons” for a friendship coming to and end are listed in your expose’. A person might even modify the contract without either party being consulted, or be canceled all together without notice, ghosting, or with notice, as you propose, being decent.

The framing of a contract, I’ve found, is a powerful tool to examine unspoken notions we hold, that run our lives. Like the man said: “An unexamined life is not worth living” Or at least, an unexamined life can be a real crap shoot.

When examined, do you want to cancel the contract? Would you like to write a new one?

David B.'s avatar

Thank you for your thoughtful comment.

In my experience, especially with one extremely narcissistic person, the notion “You care enough not to be cruel, but not enough to be decent.” can be more complicated than the negative connotation that "ghosting" allows. In my example I concluded that any relationship with "Karen"--so well illustrated by the cartoon with the two women--was impossible. Since she had consistently ignored my growing discomfort with her intransigent personality, I chose to "ghost" her and disappeared forever from her life. When she finally realized I was gone, she chose a number of reasons to explain how "cruel" I had been without ever showing any introspection or self-doubts.

From my understanding, extreme narcissists are incapable of true friendship. As a result,

I have had no regrets about my action. My only hesitation is that I should have acted earlier. On the positive side, my life took on a much calmer tone without this mentally unstable person in it.

Dr. Mardy Grothe's avatar

Thanks, David, I completely "get" the situation you describe and support your decision.

David B.'s avatar

Thank you, sir. It's from teachers like you that we learn.

Dr. Mardy Grothe's avatar

Thanks, Brent. What a powerful new way to look at friendship!

John's avatar

Marvellous, Mardy. Lots to think on and read. Thank you, John.

Dr. Mardy Grothe's avatar

Thanks, John, I appreciate your kind words.

Michael's avatar

Mardy, I can't thank you enough for such a comprehensive and thorough discussion of friendship and its endings. You've touched many parts of my life with your wisdom. I remember a Canadian writer advising people to never form a partnership with another because sooner or later one will feel left out or overburdened and the partnership will end. Great writing as usual, thanks.

Dr. Mardy Grothe's avatar

Thanks, Michael, I was hoping it would get subscribers to reflect on the friendships in their lives, and that appears to have happened.

Harley King's avatar

Excellent!

Dr. Mardy Grothe's avatar

Thanks, Harley.

Stephen Rockower's avatar

And Dan Rather's Substack column today is on the long Friendship of Johnnie Cash and Bob Dylan.

https://open.substack.com/pub/steady/p/an-unlikely-friendship?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

Dr. Mardy Grothe's avatar

Thanks, my friend, that was wonderful, indeed, and I wouldn't have known about it without your providing the link. Rather's post ended with a wonderful line: "Bob Dylan and Johnny Cash–a reminder that friendships are what sustain us."

Stephen Rockower's avatar

The quote from Arisotle defining friendship as a single soul in two bodies brought tears to my eyes, recalling the soulmate/friend/lover/wife that I lost last year.

Dr. Mardy Grothe's avatar

I'm deeply sorry for your loss, Stephen. It's hard to fathom the depth of your sorrow, but every now and then, when I imagine losing my soulmate/friend/lover/wife, just the idea of it is overwhelming. Keep talking to her, and consider yourself very fortunate to have had her in your life.

James B's avatar

Two quotations on friendship came to mind upon reading this week's issue. The first is attributed to Walter Winchell.

" A real friend is one who walks in when the rest of the world walks out."

The second one is on my bookmark without attribution.

"A friend is someone who listens with the heart."

Dr. Mardy Grothe's avatar

Both good ones. Thanks, James.

Manisha's avatar

The true sign of a tight friendship is one that feels like family. That is why childhood friendships that make it to full adulthood seem to last forever.

It is a blessing to find friends that feel like family later in life. Thank you Mardy. :)

Dr. Mardy Grothe's avatar

Thank you Manisha. I feel blessed to have tight friends like you and Dan!

Patricia Yorton's avatar

This is not the place for my complaint, Mardy, but I want to subscribe again to the Substack. It won't let me change/update my email address! I'm still such a tyro. Can you help?

I had four "sister-friends" in my life; all in heaven now, I hope! Georgette and I met respectively at 9 and 8, we walked to school together, and she moved in with my family in her teens. We then had a 25-year hiatus due to her getting married at 18 and my pursuing my career. We got back together on the death of my sister and stayed in touch then through snail mail, an occasional phone call, and a few visits. To be frank, we never could have maintained the friendship without the 1500-mile distance between Wisconsin and Florida. Absence did make the hearts grow fonder in our case. Peggy and I stayed close mainly through phone calls after she left to go back home to San Francisco. She had helped me through some traumatic events, and she truly was more sister than friend. When I finally got to California, I was able to spend some time with her. I met Kate and Rita when I started my 20-year banking career in 1976. Kate was instrumental in my hire and Rita was (of all things) the switchboard operator. (Community banks were so different in those days.) Most friendships are bonded in a business "family," which dissipate when one or more of the people leave. Not so with Kate and Rita and me. We lunched and visited and celebrated birthdays and other family events until their deaths. I have some new friends now, but they're more like my children instead of contemporaries. How many 94-year-olds do you know?

Dr. Mardy Grothe's avatar

Don't worry about it, Pat. I have already added your new e-mail address to my Subscriber list, and you should be receiving my newsletter at that address. If, for some reason, that doesn't work, not to worry. I have an alternate method of getting it to you. Thanks also for telling us about your "sister-friends." Regarding your last question, at least two-dozen Subscribers are in their 90s, and two that I know of have reached--and gone beyond--the magical 100 mark!

S E Knight's avatar

This one really hit home for me as a victim of a ghosting friend of over twenty-five years. I was and still am very hurt by it, many years later. I don’t understand why, I think that bothers me the most. Did I do something, did my husband, did her husband decide he didn’t like one of us? I don’t know. And I suppose I could ask her, but the damage has been done and even if there was a way to mend it, I don’t think I would, too much time has gone by and I was too hurt by it. I think that ghosting is cruel, one of the cruelest ways to end any kind of relationship.

Dr. Mardy Grothe's avatar

Thanks for sharing your "ghosting" experience. They don't view their action as cruel, but they couldn't be more mistaken.

Roger Baron's avatar

Dr. Mardy, this week's missive penetrates deeply into my current psyche. Thank you. Wow! This is one of your most powerful essays. It seems to be highly relevant in light of current politics and de-evolution of existing friendships/relationships. Thank you. Your description of "boundaries" is incredibly helpful.

Dr. Mardy Grothe's avatar

Thanks, Roger, always nice to hear from you. This week's issue did seem to strike a chord!

Laird Landon Jr's avatar

A riposte to your comment, “we don’t choose our families...”

I work to provide emotional support for family caregivers of chronic illness. Family caregiver is a neologism required by medicine declaring during covid that almost everyone who worked in a hospital was a caregiver. Family caregiver was the defense. However, it seems not quite right because 10-15 percent of them are not literally family; they are neighbors and friends. When I’m challenged on the misuse of the word family, I retreat to a sociological definition. Families are of three kinds: genetic, acquired and chosen.

Also, this lovely definition of friendship attributed to Aristotle: friendship is reciprocal good will.

Dr. Mardy Grothe's avatar

Thanks for weighing in, Laird. A very helpful clarification. Also love the "reciprocal good will" thought! Hadn't heard it before.