Suffering is an incredibly deep topic so thank you for the post Mardy. I read through all of the quotes on your website on the subject of suffering and appreciated the many varied points of views.
My personal thoughts are aligned to Buddhism’s premise that the path to liberation from suffering and the attainment of lasting happiness lies within the realm of the mind.
Mardy, another insightful post on suffering and its unexpected benefits. Two more perspectives on suffering come from Zen Buddhism. “The only problem that ever exists is not accepting things the way they are. This is the cause of all suffering.” Zen author Chris Prentiss boldly says: “Everything happens for a reason, and the reason is so you can be benefited. No exceptions.” But, as you pointed out, for a vast number of people, their pain and suffering leads not to growth but to death.
Thanks, Michael, I appreciate you sharing your thoughts. That first quote looks like it comes from Dan Levin, in The Zen Book (2005): "The only problem that ever exists is not accepting things the way they are. This is the cause of all suffering." I couldn't verify that Chris Prentiss observation, though. Do you have a source for it?
Mardy, you are correct about the Daniel Levin quote. Chris Prentiss' latest book is the source of the second quote, from his new book "That was ZEN this is TAO (2023). I'm a former priest and have collected quotations since 1960, which is why I have long admired your work and purchased your books. Thank you.
John McCain also came to my mind as one who came thru his hardships.
And I loved this interview w/ Stephen Colbert, perhaps just a bit like your "Gratitude" --- Stephen, a very religious person, says you can't pick & choose what to be grateful for, saying that after suffering what he went thru...
James 1:2-7 (NIV) says, "Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. Such a person is double-minded and unstable in all they do.
Trials are good for us if we respond appropriately. This includes a joyful attitude and positive outlook, submission, patience, wisdom, and trust in God. This last response is, I believe, one of God's primary objectives in allowing suffering--to drive us to Him, our Creator and loving Heavenly Father, in whose hands we are safe, no matter the circumstances. For all of life's problems, He is the ultimate answer.
Thank you, Mardy, for covering such an important topic so wonderfully. Your selection of Viktor Frankl as this week's Mystery Man was appropriate. May I share another of his quotes, which rings with truth? "He who has a why to live, can bear almost any how."
Thanks for sharing your thoughts about this week's theme, Scott. One point of clarification, though, about your last point. Frankel was quoting Nietzsche as saying, "He who has a why to live, can bear almost any how." For more, see the Nietzsche entry here: https://www.drmardy.com/dmdmq/p#purpose
• I do not believe that sheer suffering teaches. If suffering alone taught, all the world would be wise, since everyone suffers. To suffering must be added mourning, understanding, patience, love, openness and the willingness to remain vulnerable. — Anne Morrow Lindbergh I like this quote best.
As an educator, I have fought those who think suffering is the best way to teach. It most certainly is not. Inflicting suffering on a learner is vicious, hurtful and sadistic. As almost everyone has had, I had an algebra teacher who taught like what I've just described. I used his example in every one of my classes to keep new teachers from thinking that this is a good technique. I always ended by saying that "Yes, he was a very good teacher, if 'fear' was to be the result - instead of algebra." Think back to your very best and most loved and beloved teacher or teachers. It was joy and making things interesting that you liked. Right? There is a name for those who would disagree with my stance: Masochist.
Thanks, Mike, that Lindbergh quote is a classic, isn't it? Thanks also for relating to whole topic to educators and teaching. That didn't even come to my mind as I was working on the post.
Good morning, Mardy! Or should that be "mourning?" Agatha Christie's quote struck me the most in this issue. I'm living every day now with Jack's suffering the gradual loss of his mind. The fact that he's aware of it is the saddest. I know the days are coming, and I almost look forward to them, when he won't be aware of it anymore as his mind withers. And I think of all the other people who are losing their loved ones in this cruel disease of the longest of all goodbyes.
Thanks, Patricia. That is a very powerful quote, indeed, and I did think of you and Jack when I put it into this week's post. Know that my thoughts are with you as you attempt to negotiate one of life's greatest challenges.
Love this week's message! I have read Man's Search for Meaning and was greatly impacted by it. (I read lots of books about WWII and related events.) Thank you for all of your wisdom today, Dr. Mardy!
My uncle used to say, and I’ve never been able to find the author of the quote, “Never trust a man who doesn’t have a few scars”. Easy enough to substitute “hasn’t suffered”.
Thank you Dr. Mardy for the info. There's some interesting information on why God has allowed suffering in the 26th lesson of the book "Enjoy Life forever". It can be found at jw.org
Like Manisha, I was put in mind of the Buddhist teaching that life is, among other things, suffering. A little different from Manisha, I'm not sure Buddhism says one can be free of suffering through the mind, only that the mind is the source of suffering. I'm with Mardy in finding the notion that suffering molds character, a harsh idea. I suppose it's undeniable that suffering, like everything one experiences, has an impact on character. If this all sounds convoluted... it is. Like suffering.
Thank you Blayney - that is why this topic is ripe for a wonderful dinner discussion over wine and vulnerability:) Buddhism says freedom from suffering starts in the mind and is freed in the mind. Has your experience been different?
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the subject, Blayney. According to the Buddha, if I understand him correctly, the way to end suffering, one must let go of craving/desire and attachment.
Another fascinating read! As I was reading the beginning of you message this week, I started to think about what you got to!! Certainly suffering can be helpful but as said so well by so many it has its perils.
And thank you to all who brought elements of Buddhism into the conversation.
It sounds like this is just coincidence, but your topic of "suffering" is appropriate for Christians this week -- the Holy Week that starts today and ends next Sunday on Easter. The week's focus is on the Passion of Christ, which literally means the Suffering of Christ -- his betrayal by his trusted apostle, his intense agony in the garden of Gethsemane where his sweat fell like drops of blood, his trial by Pontius Pilate, and his crucifixion on the mount of Calvary.
In Christian theology Christ's suffering and death (called the atonement) potentially frees us all from suffering for our sins. In essence, the entire process — from his suffering to his death and resurrection — is viewed as one unified act of love and redemption. Without his suffering, there would be no forgiveness for us unless we suffer too (although in some interpretations personal suffering is also needed).
(I am not myself religious, but like Thomas Jefferson, I am very interested in Christianity as an ethic. Suffering plays a central role in that ethic, just as it does in Buddhism, Taoism, Judaism, and Islam. Many religious traditions regard suffering as a path to spiritual growth or transformation.)
Passion comes from the Latin word passio, which originally meant suffering or enduring but which now has shifted to mean intense emotion, enthusiasm or love, and the meaning of suffering has become obsolete. Perhaps that shift reflects the idea that suffering may in a yin and yang sense be good as well as evil.
(Oops, I got the dates wrong. Easter is not until April 20.)
That was indeed a coincidence, John. Thanks also for sharing your thoughts on the subject. Somewhere in my research, I read that our modern understanding of the concept of suffering was based on the passion of Christ.
My wife tells me Easter is not until April 20, so my comment is wrong on timing. But the thought remains largely the same. Thanks for another excellent newsletter.
An interesting analysis of suffering Mardy. Well done! Below a quote from your text I’m saving. When looking it up, the verdict goes to the horse if you are betting on the race. That is, it’s favorable to bet on an okay jockey and excellent horse, rather than vice versa.
Thank you for this week’s column. Over the past five months my 15 year old granddaughter has suffered a season-ending broken foot while playing high school soccer and then developed pneumonia, which has kept her out of school for several weeks. I forwarded the column to her with the hope that her suffering will be more bearable.
Thanks for your note, Duane. I will certainly keep your granddaughter in my thoughts. I think she might also be inspired by the many man quotations that have been offered on the theme of "Overcoming Adversity." To see them, go here: https://www.drmardy.com/dmdmq/a#adversity
Suffering is an incredibly deep topic so thank you for the post Mardy. I read through all of the quotes on your website on the subject of suffering and appreciated the many varied points of views.
My personal thoughts are aligned to Buddhism’s premise that the path to liberation from suffering and the attainment of lasting happiness lies within the realm of the mind.
Thanks for weighing in on this week's theme, Manisha. It is truly one of world history's great themes--and at the core of Buddhist thought.
Mardy, another insightful post on suffering and its unexpected benefits. Two more perspectives on suffering come from Zen Buddhism. “The only problem that ever exists is not accepting things the way they are. This is the cause of all suffering.” Zen author Chris Prentiss boldly says: “Everything happens for a reason, and the reason is so you can be benefited. No exceptions.” But, as you pointed out, for a vast number of people, their pain and suffering leads not to growth but to death.
Thanks, Michael, I appreciate you sharing your thoughts. That first quote looks like it comes from Dan Levin, in The Zen Book (2005): "The only problem that ever exists is not accepting things the way they are. This is the cause of all suffering." I couldn't verify that Chris Prentiss observation, though. Do you have a source for it?
Mardy, you are correct about the Daniel Levin quote. Chris Prentiss' latest book is the source of the second quote, from his new book "That was ZEN this is TAO (2023). I'm a former priest and have collected quotations since 1960, which is why I have long admired your work and purchased your books. Thank you.
Thanks for the info, Michael. I'm grateful for your longstanding interest and support!
John McCain also came to my mind as one who came thru his hardships.
And I loved this interview w/ Stephen Colbert, perhaps just a bit like your "Gratitude" --- Stephen, a very religious person, says you can't pick & choose what to be grateful for, saying that after suffering what he went thru...
https://x.com/AC360/status/1162183695270387712
Thanks, dj. Yes, in hindsight, I should have mentioned McCain as well. And thanks for providing that link to the Colbert interview. Most interesting.
James 1:2-7 (NIV) says, "Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. Such a person is double-minded and unstable in all they do.
Trials are good for us if we respond appropriately. This includes a joyful attitude and positive outlook, submission, patience, wisdom, and trust in God. This last response is, I believe, one of God's primary objectives in allowing suffering--to drive us to Him, our Creator and loving Heavenly Father, in whose hands we are safe, no matter the circumstances. For all of life's problems, He is the ultimate answer.
Thank you, Mardy, for covering such an important topic so wonderfully. Your selection of Viktor Frankl as this week's Mystery Man was appropriate. May I share another of his quotes, which rings with truth? "He who has a why to live, can bear almost any how."
Thanks for sharing your thoughts about this week's theme, Scott. One point of clarification, though, about your last point. Frankel was quoting Nietzsche as saying, "He who has a why to live, can bear almost any how." For more, see the Nietzsche entry here: https://www.drmardy.com/dmdmq/p#purpose
Great catch, Mardy. Thank you for correcting me.
My pleasure, Scott. That is one of my all-time favorite quotes, so the mis-attribution really jumped out at me.
I understand completely. What's interesting is that you're largely responsible for reinforcing that quote in my mind. Thank you for that.
Truly my pleasure!
• I do not believe that sheer suffering teaches. If suffering alone taught, all the world would be wise, since everyone suffers. To suffering must be added mourning, understanding, patience, love, openness and the willingness to remain vulnerable. — Anne Morrow Lindbergh I like this quote best.
As an educator, I have fought those who think suffering is the best way to teach. It most certainly is not. Inflicting suffering on a learner is vicious, hurtful and sadistic. As almost everyone has had, I had an algebra teacher who taught like what I've just described. I used his example in every one of my classes to keep new teachers from thinking that this is a good technique. I always ended by saying that "Yes, he was a very good teacher, if 'fear' was to be the result - instead of algebra." Think back to your very best and most loved and beloved teacher or teachers. It was joy and making things interesting that you liked. Right? There is a name for those who would disagree with my stance: Masochist.
Thanks, Mike, that Lindbergh quote is a classic, isn't it? Thanks also for relating to whole topic to educators and teaching. That didn't even come to my mind as I was working on the post.
Good morning, Mardy! Or should that be "mourning?" Agatha Christie's quote struck me the most in this issue. I'm living every day now with Jack's suffering the gradual loss of his mind. The fact that he's aware of it is the saddest. I know the days are coming, and I almost look forward to them, when he won't be aware of it anymore as his mind withers. And I think of all the other people who are losing their loved ones in this cruel disease of the longest of all goodbyes.
Thanks, Patricia. That is a very powerful quote, indeed, and I did think of you and Jack when I put it into this week's post. Know that my thoughts are with you as you attempt to negotiate one of life's greatest challenges.
Love this week's message! I have read Man's Search for Meaning and was greatly impacted by it. (I read lots of books about WWII and related events.) Thank you for all of your wisdom today, Dr. Mardy!
Thanks, Roger, I appreciate your heartwarming words!
My uncle used to say, and I’ve never been able to find the author of the quote, “Never trust a man who doesn’t have a few scars”. Easy enough to substitute “hasn’t suffered”.
Thanks, John, we all need an uncle like that to help us keep our minds straight!
Thank you Dr. Mardy for the info. There's some interesting information on why God has allowed suffering in the 26th lesson of the book "Enjoy Life forever". It can be found at jw.org
Thanks for weighing in, Bruce. Will check out the link.
The word "glance" in the Thomas Mann quote reminded me of my poem and the absence of a glance:
DEJA VU
Look not at him,
Look not at them
Lest he, lest they
look forward at you,
look back at you -
gazing, thinking
or, worse.
look not at you
at all.
Thanks, Lon, that was a lovely piece of verse. Thanks for sharing it.
Like Manisha, I was put in mind of the Buddhist teaching that life is, among other things, suffering. A little different from Manisha, I'm not sure Buddhism says one can be free of suffering through the mind, only that the mind is the source of suffering. I'm with Mardy in finding the notion that suffering molds character, a harsh idea. I suppose it's undeniable that suffering, like everything one experiences, has an impact on character. If this all sounds convoluted... it is. Like suffering.
Thank you Blayney - that is why this topic is ripe for a wonderful dinner discussion over wine and vulnerability:) Buddhism says freedom from suffering starts in the mind and is freed in the mind. Has your experience been different?
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the subject, Blayney. According to the Buddha, if I understand him correctly, the way to end suffering, one must let go of craving/desire and attachment.
Another fascinating read! As I was reading the beginning of you message this week, I started to think about what you got to!! Certainly suffering can be helpful but as said so well by so many it has its perils.
And thank you to all who brought elements of Buddhism into the conversation.
Thanks, Barbara. It doesn't happen frequently, but I found my thinking evolving as I worked on the piece.
It sounds like this is just coincidence, but your topic of "suffering" is appropriate for Christians this week -- the Holy Week that starts today and ends next Sunday on Easter. The week's focus is on the Passion of Christ, which literally means the Suffering of Christ -- his betrayal by his trusted apostle, his intense agony in the garden of Gethsemane where his sweat fell like drops of blood, his trial by Pontius Pilate, and his crucifixion on the mount of Calvary.
In Christian theology Christ's suffering and death (called the atonement) potentially frees us all from suffering for our sins. In essence, the entire process — from his suffering to his death and resurrection — is viewed as one unified act of love and redemption. Without his suffering, there would be no forgiveness for us unless we suffer too (although in some interpretations personal suffering is also needed).
(I am not myself religious, but like Thomas Jefferson, I am very interested in Christianity as an ethic. Suffering plays a central role in that ethic, just as it does in Buddhism, Taoism, Judaism, and Islam. Many religious traditions regard suffering as a path to spiritual growth or transformation.)
Passion comes from the Latin word passio, which originally meant suffering or enduring but which now has shifted to mean intense emotion, enthusiasm or love, and the meaning of suffering has become obsolete. Perhaps that shift reflects the idea that suffering may in a yin and yang sense be good as well as evil.
(Oops, I got the dates wrong. Easter is not until April 20.)
That was indeed a coincidence, John. Thanks also for sharing your thoughts on the subject. Somewhere in my research, I read that our modern understanding of the concept of suffering was based on the passion of Christ.
My wife tells me Easter is not until April 20, so my comment is wrong on timing. But the thought remains largely the same. Thanks for another excellent newsletter.
Thanks, John. Your timing may have been wrong, but your point was right on the money.
Was it Sylvester the cat trying to catch tweety bird who uttered the magnificent phrase
'SUFFERIN' SUCCOTASH"? If succotash can suffer, what can humans expect?
Hi, Louis. No matter what I write, I never cease to be amazed--and amused--by your "take" on it!
An interesting analysis of suffering Mardy. Well done! Below a quote from your text I’m saving. When looking it up, the verdict goes to the horse if you are betting on the race. That is, it’s favorable to bet on an okay jockey and excellent horse, rather than vice versa.
Herman
On Mar 22, 2025, at 11:14 PM, Mardy Grothe <drmardy@drmardy.com> wrote:
Well said, Herman.
Thank you for this week’s column. Over the past five months my 15 year old granddaughter has suffered a season-ending broken foot while playing high school soccer and then developed pneumonia, which has kept her out of school for several weeks. I forwarded the column to her with the hope that her suffering will be more bearable.
Thanks for your note, Duane. I will certainly keep your granddaughter in my thoughts. I think she might also be inspired by the many man quotations that have been offered on the theme of "Overcoming Adversity." To see them, go here: https://www.drmardy.com/dmdmq/a#adversity